It seems to me that one can not understand the malicious agenda of the American administration for the middle east without exposing the supportive role, which some of the surrogate agents are playing on the behalf of the Americans, to stir up sectarian strives and religious rifts amongst the people of the region
One article has caught my attention in the Egyptian Al Osboo’ newspaper today (a newspaper whose editor I respect and salute), reporting about the first International Conference for the Egyptian Coptis Overseas. The conference was held in Chicago, and was attended by two senators, one of which (Frank Wolf) is a member of the senate house committee for religious freedom. The conference has focused on the grievances of Egyptian Coptis living inside Egypt. It had listed a number of what it called ‘repressive policies’ of the Egyptian regime on various capacity like: education, media, employment…etc…
While I acknowledge the right of any group to hold a conference about whatever cause they believe in, I am having to take the motivation behind this specific conference with a pinch of salt; I am wondering how effective it is for the long term livelihood and welfare of the Egyptian Coptis to hold such meetings, where they condone using their influence with the American administration to exert pressure on the Egyptian regime, in order to provide more empowerment for the Coptic minority.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not defending the Egyptian regime here, I am only saying that this thing looks like fishing in murky waters. I think a genuine contention of the Copti minority would be to try to make the rule of governance as secular as possible. I think those who have lead the conference, assuming that they don’t have a hidden agenda, are missing the whole point by accentuating religious differences. The grievances they’ve mentioned can be drawn to encompass the Egyptian society as a whole. I don’t want to go into the details of the other lies that have been tucked among the listed pretenses to condone an American interference in the internal issues of Egypt (like the claimed ‘Arabic historical persecution’ throughout the history), let me just say that the Coptis interests should lie in a healthy and open dialogue amongst the whole portions of the Egyptian people.
20 comments:
It\'s the same story in every spot .. money and power can buy peoples .. and turn them into puppets
And it\'s the same style of the US that never changes : divide and rule : encourage one party to rebel and sell weapons to the other
Deniaaaaaa
Excellent post DJ, I agree that seeking American administration support for national causes colors those causes. I doubt very much that the US administration gives a damn about Coptic grievances or Armenian, or whatever. Its a tool they use to put additional political pressure on governments they want to squeeze or influence, some way or the other. Cant argue with you there.
However, I can argue with your statement about the supposed lies that they're spreading about their situation in Egypt. DJ, the Copts in Egypt do not just share the same grievances as every other Egyptian does. They share additional ones. In Syria, for instance, there is no official discrimination against Christian minorities. Apart from the position of president, all positions in the country are open to Christians. Unofficially, there may be some discrimination but its done on an individual basis, and is not supported by the law.
The situation in Egypt is a completely different story. I am very familiar with stories of outright official discrimination, of positions not being open to Christians, of university exams being deliberately scheduled on Christian religious occasions, of churches unable to fix even their toilets without presidential approval, of the police siding with the Muslims in any conflict with Christians. I dont know if the quotation marks are yours or the article's, but there are definitely "repressive policies" in place by the Egyptian regime against the Copts.
The Copts are as Egyptian as everyone else, yet they're definitely treated as second-class citizens (they've managed to do well for themselves, a lot of the time, in the private sector, due largely to a community spirit - Copts employ other Copts, etc). Any attempt to draw attention to this discrimination is labeled a stab in the back of Egyptian patriotism. With no recourse to justice within their own country, and with their own government playing the part of the oppressor, I see little choice but to turn to international support. How much it serves the Coptic cause, I dont know, but I think the Copts have run out of choices from within.
Like with most of what passes for 'activism' in the region, I see that you, like myself, feel distinctly uncomfortable with their motives. Good and interesting post :)
Spears,
Welcome to the realms of my humble blog…:)
You are absolutely right. Americans have never done anything out of charitable spirit. It’ll take long period of rehab for any American administration with good intentions, to rebuild the ruptured cords with the Arab masses.
Lujayn,
The quotation marks are mine as I was quoting one of the contributors to the conference. I am not suggesting that there are absolutely no injustices toward the Coptis in Egypt, and I know that the situation in Syria is much better (yet another reason to be a proud Syrian!), but to claim that there has been an ‘Arabic Persecution’ toward the Coptis throughout the history, ever since the Arabs have conquered Egypt, I mean such statement don’t only constitute an outright lie, it also shows that some of the contributors to this conference are trying to impose their own baggage of grudge on the other people of the community….
By the way, the article is very long and there are number of other claims that I found either ridiculous or baseless (I’ll get you a clipping of the article:)))… like for instance, in their final statement, the participants in the conference said that teaching Islamic Conquests (al fotoo7at al islamiah) in history subjects at governmental schools, is a form of repression and discrimination toward the Coptis…
I think they were simply trying to exaggerate those claims in order to appeal to wider western audience.
I am not saying that the proclaimed grievances themselves are dubious, but the endeavor on the part of the Coptis overseas (who are generally well-off and don’t share those grievances with other members of their community who live inside Egypt) to try to bring them under the international microscope, is itself fishy and suspicious…and what’s more, we know by vicarious experience that it won’t yield any positive results…..
Wassim,
You and I share almost the same views on the subject matter… you know…I don’t find writing in politics entertaining, but this one has exceptionally caught my attention. In fact, I didn’t even buy the newspaper, it was just there lying at the living room table, I think this is one of the virtues that comes along with having a Nasserist father!
interesting post ya DJ and you touch on very valid points.. why not see Rendition? Preferably on fake dvds so hollywood bosses don't get fatter.. and let me know what you think.
Bringing the American administration to bed wouldn't solve our impotency problems.
By now it must be clear to all "opposition" in the Middle East that this is a dead-end street. Regardless of whether they are fighting for a just cause or not, bring in not "total strangers" but "malicious strangers" to intervene is having the exact opposite effect. If anyone believes that my words might hold some truth as far as the "ignorant" masses are concerned, think again, and HARD.
DJ,
The American people are a collection from all over the world. The immigration system brings in hundreds of thousands each year since the last three centuries ago. Most immigrants are from other parts of the world and they group trying to help their brothers in the countries they came from. I do not see anything wrong with that. And please do not forget also that there are other groups like liberal Egyptian who are pushing the regime to open and allow for civil liberty.
The thing you are accusing USA with is not planted by USA it is alive inside those countries and the oppressive regimes in these countries by his nature always lay the blame on others as a defensive mechanism to stay in power. Minority policies in most these backward countries are not fair. Of course no only towards minority even toward majority.
Minorities in our midst are a big value we should cherish them not oppress them. Look at the Armenian minority in Syria, they were a treasure to the country, they brought and introduced a lot of industries and skills. Respect and freedom of religions practices should be sacred.
Hala Bu Jassem,
I’ve not heard of ‘rendition’, what is it about? Does it have anything to do with the infamous ‘extraordinary rendition’ policy?
Hey Kaya
What’s happening in Pakistan is really troubling, and for all practical reasons, I just can’t exonerate the dirty American hands from being an accomplice in destabilizing the situation….
Exactly Abu Fares, I think that will make our impotency problems even worse...
As for the masses... I don't know, I think they are trying to clutch a straw, any straw, even though if it is dirty and slippery..
Anon,
points all well taken. I don’t know if you are the same one who has got his comment moderated before, I apologize for having to moderate your comment now again, please understand that this is the not the right forum to discuss minorities’ grievances. I was just saying that people should not allow an outsider to exploit these grievances.
And Anon,
There is no problem in the concept of ‘help’ offered by all overseas brothers, but trying to impose an agenda and capitalizing on religious rifts to push this agenda, is just not going to help anyone…
yeah, I think you got it on the head ya Dubai Jazz... check out:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0804522/
After watching the movie, I still can't figure out the motive for catching the Egyptian in the first place!
DJ, I would be interested in finding out what proof you have that the claims are an outright lie. There have definitely been many times, documented by a variety of sources, not just Coptic, that the Copts were persecuted as a result of their beliefs. There were rules in place that dictated how they dressed, what they rode, and where they walked, for example. Of course, there was also the matter of the Jizya. Under different rulers, the rules were implemented strictly or loosely, and sometimes not at all. But they were there.
As for considering the lessons on the Islamic conquests as a form of discrimination, I think what most Copts would probably love to see is an acknowledgement of their history too in the government history books. The Copts are completely overlooked in official curriculums, and its as if this sizable minority has had no contribution to the development of the country. You cant deny that the history most of us learn is Islamic history.
Needless to say, Christian religion classes are not included in the Egyptian school curriculum in the government sector, while in Syria, schools with Christian students are obliged to offer religion classes for Christians too.
Furthermore, the Copts abroad are not necessarily better off than those in Egypt, and wealth certainly doesn’t make their grievances unimportant. They are still entitled to say that discrimination is discrimination, even if they’re well off and have moved abroad.
DJ, it is so easy to get defensive if you consider Islam is under attack but put yourself in their shoes. I wouldn’t defend a regime that has proven itself, time and time again, to be repressive against so many people, just because the victims are Copts this time.
AND every time someone has a grievance, he’s asked to put it aside so as not to be exploited by the West. Of course, nothing is done about it, on the inside.
Sometimes people end up aligning their interests with Western interests, to get what they want. Take the Armenian Genocide. Definitely not a new massacre. Yet the US administration has taken no steps to pressure Turkey until now. Why? No political interest. Now the political interest has arisen, and so the Armenian Genocide is suddenly the cause of the month in Washington. Does that make the Armenians, who have been pushing for Turkish acknowledgement of the genocide, lackeys of the West? Does it make their cause any less just? No. I wouldn’t blame them for approaching the West for support. I would blame the Turks for not acknowledging their atrocities. If regimes don’t want the US administration applying political pressure on them, let them not give the US administration the pretext they need. Instead of asking the Copts not to air dirty laundry in the West, our demand should be for the Egyptian regime to safeguard Coptic rights.
Lujayn,
If the Copts aren’t allowed to teach (and be taught) their own history and language (excuse my ignorance, didn’t know they had their own language) at public schools, then they should be allowed to. There is no question of that.
I am not in a position now to open all chapters of history (note that history can’t change, but could be learnt from)…. Copts at a certain moment, as the situation with all other Arab Christians, were under the rule of the grand Islamic nation. They were asked to pay Jyzia not as a gesture of racism or as discriminatory measure, let’s just say it was the approach toward collecting taxes when it came to them. Because on the other hand, they were not asked to pay Zakat or enroll in the army, so that was a kind of a compensatory measure…I think so….
I genuinely don’t believe there was oppression toward Christians during the days of the grand Islamic nation; there were not denied their rights of religious practices and beliefs. Their presence was continuous. And there numbers didn’t dwindle.
On the contrary to that, my hunch tells me that they were happy to be part of a prosperous nation…like how so many American Muslims, these days, are happy to be part of the American nation, albeit a Christian nation in parenthesis..
Again, I am not saying that they should not complain, in fact, after listening to what you’ve said about the hardships they are facing, I would say they SHOULD complain and voice their grievances, they just need to pick the right and the productive venue for that…
I am not in a position to defend the Egyptian regime, they’ve got better writers (with fat checks in the mail:)) to do that…
And Lujayn, it would be quite understandable (and acceptable) if the Copts turned to the Vatican for the pressure they need. Because we already know that the Vatican, with its revered spiritual stature, doesn’t have a malicious agenda toward the people of the region. But when it comes to the Americans, it is not only that they don’t care about the just causes, it’s not that they are selective about which cause to support, it’s not that repressive regimes can buy the American satisfaction with cheep services at face value but with huge cost of national pride and sovereignty; they will eventually hammer the wedge between the different communities and watch as everyone gets polarized to his own side. They will pour what’s left of this region’s oil on the fire and set the splinters of what was once the middle east ablaze, and they don’t care..
OK. I have to throw my two cents worth in here and clarify some things. The people of the United States do care that Copts in Egypt and Baha'is in Iran are not able to worship freely. For the people here, it is an entirely incomprehensible idea that people are being discriminated against, tortured, or killed because they don't choose to follow the common religion. (As to whether that truly extends to the administration, I think the government only functions as a political machine and is keenly aware of how any situation can be used to political advantage.)
This is not a Christian nation, thankfully. Most people here understand that, and the majority of them fight very hard to preserve separation of church and state. Religion is far from the minds of most folks going about their daily activities. They could care less what you practice as long as you aren't preaching at them, or sacrificing their children. No one is looking to see whether his neighbor is at the church, mosque, temple, or synagogue (or at all of them on different days.) Most people are very secular, with the exception of the slow-to-change Bible Belt.
Please make sure that you don't start hating the rest of us just because you see our administration making purely politically advantageous moves.
Dear Paige,
It’s an undisputed fact that most Americans are good folks.
It’s also known that America is one of the freest countries in the world when it comes to the practice of religion on the individual level.
But when it comes to the American forgiven policy; it’s an entirely different story.
We can go on and on talking about the torturing of Bahais in Iran, but what about the violations of human rights in Saudi Arabia for instance? The American administration doesn’t seem to be bothered about them. You said it’s been selective about the causes to support. I would say it’s hypocrisy and opportunism. In fact, there hasn’t been even one case when the American have established a bright example for a cause they’ve supported. (I am talking about the middle east so Japan and Germany are excluded:))
Well, we are quite aware of the human rights abuses in Saudi. However, the US can't quite bring itself to stand up to the oil master. We aren't going to do anything to irritate them, for obvious reasons. Too many people have their hands in too many pockets. Unfortunately, I don't have my hand in anyone's pockets. I'm just a poor, middle class worker bee...
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